- september 4, 2020 kl. 03:10 #71845AnonymInaktiv
Thank you for accepting me at this forum.
I am a Dutchman living in Taiwan, and I am building the very first “historical Mercedes-Benz/Benz/Daimler customer gift museum”
The MB Museum in Stuttgart does not have any of this.
This collection ONLY comprises of items that were directly released by MB Germany. Pure and clean, from 1901 up to 1986
I have been working on this for many years, and it is likely that this is the biggest, most comprehensive collection in the world, and we are actively adding to the collection every week of the year.
We should open our doors in 2021
Now, among those hundreds of releases there are 2 Tekno’s, the MB 280SL. (Not the 230SL Tekno)
It comes in red and in white.
The packaging perfectly fits the packaging found in the dozens of MB customer gifts, the collection from 1961-1971
But, there are questions, and I sure would like to hear from you guys if there’s anyone that can tell me anything about this 280SL
1. The box has 2 orange sides, and “Mercedes-benz 280SL” printed on those sides.
That never happens.
It never happens in that specific 1961-71 MB collection, and not in any of the other historical collections series between 1953-1986
The era-correct star, and the era-correct font of the printed “mercedes-benz”, as well as the packaging all together make this 99.9% an official MB issue, and not a Tekno-factory release.
There must be a story here.
2. Only twice in MB history did MB release just 1 car in a gift box. (the Unimog CURSOR and the Adenauer 300 Pramaeta)
Otherwise there are dozens of sets where MB has their complete assortment of cars in one single (WIKING) gift box.
It was only in the late 80’s that MB introduced the first 1-car-per-gift box system, the Cursor series, but that is a very different era.
So, back to this 280SL, there is a problem here. The box, by all means, looks like it is part of a SERIES of a 1-car-per-box release, but, none other can be found. It’s just this 280SL, in red and in white.
And combined with the 2 orange sides, I am left with no explanation, except wild theories.
Note, I have NO proof for this whatsoever!
A. MB Denmark or some other Scandinavian or Germanic MB distributor actually released this as a first item out of a planned series of MB cars, but were given a cease-and-desist letter from the lawyers of MB Germany, forbidding them to use this logo, font, and/or packaging, after which the series was discontinued after only releasing the 280SL
B. Tekno released this under some unique scheme that I cannot imagine or explain.
I really hope anyone here can answer this, or maybe can give me a tip or a hint for me to explore.
I would also like to know what you can deduct to be a possible exact release date. a
MB released the 280SL from 1967 to 1971, and this Tekno has the horizontally mounted spare wheel, another indication that this was surely NOT just a revamped early 230SL, that had the vertical spare wheel mount.
I thank you already for any information, as well as for your ideas and opinions.
Best wishes, Stanseptember 4, 2020 kl. 20:25 #71871
Thank you very much for participate us in Denmark with your plans with your museum.
I have an article on my webpage concerning the MB 230, 250 and 280 and all the other MB Tekno models.
Your can find it here:
It´s a reel Tekno product – no doubt about that – the danish importer off MB cars, trucks and busses were very very powerfull at that time and we were very close to Tekno, when the developed new MB models.
His name was Bohnstedt Petersen and he was not only importer he owned all the Mercedes car shops in Denmark.
My best guess is, that Bohnstedt ordered this speciel item and gave it away to dealers and businesspartners.
Shan – read my article – use Google translate – and write again if you have more questions.
Peterseptember 6, 2020 kl. 04:26 #71910AnonymInaktiv
Very interesting article there!. Great write-up.
The most complete I have ever seen, but then again, I had not yet found a single letter written about this dealer-car in all these years, haha!
That makes this Nr.1 help I ever received, by default. Thanks!
May I also use this occasion to reach out to all members and friends here and ask if anyone is willing to sell their SL (with this box) to our museum?
In the end we would love to have each/all of the “Bohnstedt-Tekno’s” on display.
For now, we only have the white 230, the white 280 and the red 280.
We would love to have at least 1/any black SL, and at least 1/any 250SL before we open our doors to the public.
(we would add your name to the display, haha!)
There is a lot that can be added to this story..
Since there are so few surviving models of this dealer-box, especially the black version in ANY box, it is possible that the black version with roof doesn’t belong in this series at all, but was switched by someone in order to sell it, with use of the MB box.
I am a fanatical collector, and have stumbled upon these dealer boxes at least twice per year. Never seen proof of a black version, and the red/white ones never were seen with a roof.
Food for thought..
Never noticed the sticker labels but indeed, they are such boxes here. Nice catch.
Also great to find out is that there are 230’s, 250’s AND 280’s out there,
It is so rare that anyone, even MB Stuttgart, can tell me anything new about anything regarding my general collection. Just never happens.
I still need to find out who actually released those dealer boxes.
I have listed some of the issues here, the differences between the official Germany Gift Article series 1953-1986, and THIS box here.
(Mind you, we do not speak about any of the many OTHER MB departments visuals, like “Internal documents”, Automotive manuals” etc.etc. This is about the “Marketing Department” policy, up until 1986.
1.the historical MB Germany “all-cars-per-set principle” have 2 known exceptions. Thus, not a rule written in stone.
2. Not mentioned before, but MB Marketing Department’s various historical editions basically never contained any “foreign-made” items. (like Tekno) They were always German produced.
They first and only exceptions regarded writing equipment suppliers.
Staring with the new 1971-85 gift editions, besides Lamy and Fischer pens, MB commissioned Parker, DuPont and Mont Blanc, but that’s about it, all the way up to the mid eighties, where that strict policy started fading.
3. Packaging visuals
Important is that within 1961-1971 there are NO exceptions to this packaging, and I own about 95% of every historical gift article ever issued. I have photos of another 4%
The one and only variation one may find online are the official Stuttgart MB Museum gift shop items. They used the 1961-71 design but are actually RETRO-issues.
Their boxes differ in a way that they have a BLACK-on white font on the long side, where during 1961-71 there always was a BLUE-on white font on the long side.
Note how this pre-1971 280SL also has a black-on white font on the long side? That just wasn’t a thing during the actual 1961-71 era.
So, the confusion returns, but there is more contradiction.
4. Pre-1986, MB Germany Marketing department (maybe never) allowed anyone to use their era-correct MB font + era-correct star, together on ANY third-party marketing article, including their most major foreign MB distributors. I still can’t offer exception-examples, but it’s a big world out there.
There is, however, overwhelming historical proof that MB never allowed anyone to use their packaging, not with minor changes, and surely not while ALSO using the era correct font+star on that issue.
Foreign MB distributors would sometimes obtain permission to use the era-correct font+star, but MB would then insist on some other, major difference in the total configuration to ensure people would understand this to be a MB-sanctioned third party issue.
They might insist on a clear extra, incorrect marker, like a larger, secondary incorrect font, like UK-MB Golf bags, or a strange color scheme.
Another option for distributors and third parties alike would be use of the era-INcorrect font + the era-correct star or vice versa, like on MB watches”, or just the correct star alone, like some third-party MB-sanctioned customer gifts.
Now, I don’t know much about Tekno. I just started looking into this, and only because of this 280SL.
But, I bet the bank that the very same principles apply to all vintage Tekno’s.
I have seen the 60’s era-correct Mercedes font on Tekno boxes. But there are no MB stars to be found anywhere, are there?
On the photo I included you can see an example.
The era-correct blue-white star + the era-correct MB font combi indicates MB distributor-involvement/sanctioning.
But, the Font and the star are not together in a single distinguished window, so it would not be an MB Germany commission. Plus, no German 1953-71 packaging.
Leave it to the Germans to have rules for everything.
Another rather wild theory was that this was a one-time IAA expo commission. The MB marketing department has products and rules for such expo’s. However, no secondary products with that packaging are to be found, tekno is not a german product and MB does not mess with current formats to make exceptions.
So, what are we looking at here, with this 280SL?
Personally, I don’t think this was a MB Germany-sanctioned foreign distributor article.
If it was, this would have been the only exception to the rule ever, from 1953 until 1986. if it was, somebody at MB would have been short of a job right thereafter. It’s possible, but highly unlikely.
Personally, my best guess is much like yours, that Bohnstedt ordered this item at Tekno but he went it alone, without any German permission.
I think it likely there were plans for a series of Tekno-MB’s on this box, but either Tekno shut their doors too early, or Bohnstedt was told to stop by MB Germany.
Considering MB Danmark’s family/business/assembly ties with MB Germany, I am sure he thought he could get away with it.
Despite the “third-party” historical ties between Tekno and MB Germany, Tekno clearly neglected to ensure written permission from Stuttgart for this project.
Maybe they really needed the money, or MB Danmark pushed them.
I think that the events of 1966-67, the end of MB assembly in Denmark, and the beginning of MB imports, as well as the final years of Tekno, all had a hand in these events.
All of that would make this a rogue Tekno issue, as well as a rogue MB dealer gift, non-MB Germany-sanctioned, and in that way -a rogue MB distributor issue.
What remains is that it is the absolute only one of a kind in that way.
Now, how does one estimate the value of that?
Isn’t that as unique as possible?
Best wishes, SRJ Dieks
PS, I posted this in 2 sections, unsure as to where I should have been posting this. The version on the other page is NOT the finished edit and contains errors and imperfections.. My apologies. Still learning to navigate here.september 6, 2020 kl. 12:51 #71918
Very interesting views – I just love people with a passion. I will start apologize for my old webside, it´s not modern and we work on a new image. Notting are right or wrong, but everybody can comment directly in the articles becouse it will help spread knowledge for Tekno and model collecting. But it´s not possible to upload pictures in these comment boxes. The comments will stay with the article. My Forum is like a Facebook thread – but the search engine are not good – but I hope for a new version soon. But you can upload pictures in at Forum
I will try to reply on your comments and questions step by step.
I don´t know much about Mercedes and there policies, but you have to understand, that Bohnstedt Petersen were really powerfull and even Mercedes have severel times tryed to elimate his power in Denmark, by disperse him having import off the cars, trucks and busses – and even all the dealers shops and garages all over Denmark. Nobody in world has the same privilege I think.
Bohnstedt lived in the same little town as me with maybe 25.000 – 30.000 inhabitants in the 1960.ties. He and his family always driving the newest and biggest Mercedes and the change it all the time. He had his own estate and a (little) airport with his own airplanes – among these there were a DC3 giving to Denmark by US after the World War II – but when the US what it back he manage to keep it to he dead.
I know all Teknos models and the boxes were approved by Bohnstedt – and remember Tekno made maybe the most detailed modelcars in the world and that knew Mercedes. I think the were happy working together with Tekno. If you read my article with the Mercedes 0302 bus you will find direct dokumention for corporation between Mercedes and Tekno. The box for the bus also carring a MB star.
Therefore I think/guess that it was an easy matter for Bohnstedt get promission from Mercedes to produce a special box for his dealers and for Mercedes – if he at all have asked. I doubt that.
I´m pretty sure Bohnstedt releast the dealer box – because it has no value for Tekno.
Nobody can garantie that the car was delivered in open or closted version – in red, write or black colour. That would be logical that only the open version was in the box, but I don´t know. But I think the black version are possible because it´s rare on the marked. It´s not easy finding a black – but maybe Karl Schnelle a collector from US know something – I think he have one in black.
The 250 – version are rare in all versions and when you meet it – it´s almost the “Police” version.
The museums know nothing at all – it´s either students all just people having a job. Thats sad. Try severel times a Volvo with the same result.
At last I have the say, but there are no secure knowledge about Tekno. My articles are build on material like drawings, protypes, the models, articles in all newspapers, katalogs fotos and interview with people working on Tekno etc. I have to compare all these information and put it together the exclusion method – and what is most likely.
I compere all this with my many-year-olds knowledge how Tekno was working and thinking and whats was the most likely disposition they made at that time – but it´s certainly not knowledge by a scientific standard.
Attachments:september 6, 2020 kl. 14:12 #71922
My last post did not go through? Do you not allow links anymore?
I am glad to see someone posting in English here! I am usually the only one but somehow the others tolerate me. I am a long term American Tekno collector who lived during the summer in Denmark as a kid. I never saw this promo box until years later and found mine in 1997. I have seen them for sale, always with the open version. Mine is open and white!
In any case, I think the origin is pretty simple, as Peter says above. Maybe the factory did not give Tekno permission, but I believe they only talked with Bohnstedt-Petersen who was powerful enough to promote MB in DK as he saw fit.
Tekno used the Bohnstedt-Petersen name on both their 230SL and 300SL plain red cardboard boxes.
Have you seen this site? bohnstedtpetersen dot dk history in English? Very fascinating…
Will you have a virtual museum so we all can see some of it? Website? What a huge undertaking! Karl in Indianapolisseptember 7, 2020 kl. 03:13 #71942
Regarding the Vilmer MB.
To be completely honest, I can not in my wildest imagination, believe that Vilmer has negotiated with anyone other than Bohnstedt-Petersen. But I do not know. But apart from a Volvo 444 and a Lambretta scooter, all Vilmer’s toy cars and tractors are as real things assembled or produced in Denmark. So it will seem natural that Vilmer has only received permits from Danish companies.
I mean that the name Bohnstedt-Petersen is on all the Tekno Mercedes boxes both 180, 220 Ambulance, the 220, 300SL, 230/250/280SL, the truck the garbage truck and the bus. AND then Bohnstedt-Petersen also had a license to manufacture the KUKA waste shredder and the box for the truck, which is also available as Tekno. Finally, Bohnstedt-Petersen also assembled DKW so that the name also appears on the DKW Junior box. DKW became later a part of the MB group. Bohnstedt-Petersen also had the negotiation of an aircraft, therefore they also had an airfield. Teknos Mercedes 300SL and 230/250/280SL were sold in Germany by Walco in France by Solido, in Spain by Dalia and in the USA by MPC.
Bohnstedt-Petersen was started in 1911, and continuously represented various cars and motorcycles, as well as an importer and assembly plant for like, AJS, Renault, Chrysler and Piper aircraft and more. from 1934 it was Mercedes and Autounion for which they were general importers, and for which an assembly plant had been established, for the North. For DKW, the production included everything except the imported technical parts such as engine.
Tekno should probably be able to receive orders, or in some other way negotiate with such a company, without following up by asking for a OK in Stuttgart, afterwards.
If you take a strong magnifying glass and look at the dashboard in the 280SL model, there is 230SL in the mold in the middle. On the base and on the rear it says 230SL or 250SL or 280SL. And it was a toy car for healthy boys, not a model for dad, and it worked for the purpose.september 7, 2020 kl. 06:48 #71943AnonymInaktiv
Thanks so much for the additional information. bar a few tiny details, it all confirms what we know and what we can deduct.
The 0302 box you showed is a great example of an item that an MB distributor may commission. A personally designed packaging, with an official MB star + written MB, making this an MB distributor release. One can find many other examples like that. Portugal, UK, USA did it a lot, always with their own packaging design. Japan, I think, can be compared to Denmark, where the distributor is too strong to actually have to care about MB Germany policy, so there are lots of go-it-alone examples there, even to the level of producing and supplying MB parts in Japan that one only can/could purchase in Japan, like MB parking pennants from the 70’s and 80’s. But, even Japan never copied the German gift box design.
“Tekno should probably be able to receive orders, or in some other way negotiate with such a company, without following up by asking for a OK in Stuttgart, afterwards.”
In the world of corporations and copyright, same rules apply.
I am the Ohlins distributor for Taiwan, and i wanted Ohlins Zippo’s as a one-time-gift for my dealers.
Zippo did not move an inch before receiving not just my written application, but also the certified permission from Ohlins Sweden.
That’s how that goes. MB danmark can never hold any rights over MB’s copyrighted and patented designs, logos and articles.
You asked about my collection, whether it can be viewed online. i do have an FB page where I show a few highlights to give an idea of where this is going. look for ‘stan dieks’
the plan is to only open by appointment, and only to specific parties, like MB clubs, marketing students, Automotive departments at universities, etc. Entry fees will be around 30 euros per person and will always come with an extensive lecture/tour. We plan to open in 2021, hopefully around the end of Covid, even though there’s (almost) no such problem here in Taiwan.
Back to this Bohnstedt-Tekno, that will be it’s designated name for me from now on:
What you won’t find anywhere on this planet, is another example like this SL, where the distributor actually takes the official German MB marketing department’s packaging, for their own use.
Even the Stuttgart museum doesn’t. they come close, but have to change their retro-boxes lettering to black, and decrease the vector/design on those retro-boxes. They also have a full dark blue box with white star+MB, differentiating themselves most clearly.
The Carl benz museum uses the full MB +star, like the 0302, but have full white box with black MB+Star.
So you see, that even within Daimler AG’s endless departments, same rules apply.
I will see if I can find that collector in the USA!
He must have lots of data that’s yet missing on my end.
..Found karl Schnelle. He passed away last year.september 7, 2020 kl. 13:08 #71948
I am still alive – that was my father who passed away last year!!!!!! but have already replied to your post!!! I know nothing about the one Tekno box in pseudo-official colors!
september 7, 2020 kl. 20:55 #71953
- Dette svar blev ændret 3 år, 5 måneder siden af Stroget.
I do not think that one can transfer how to make toys in the 1950s and 1960s to today regarding advertising topics.
I do not know but I will definitely think that Tekno has received permits for the cars in DK. Tekno has definitely been confidence in that general importers, and assembly plant companies (Ford, GM, Mercedes-Benz and DKW) have had the background in order. Volvo, Saab and Scania, I have a feeling that they spoke directly with the factories.
The example VW Herbi from the 1969 movie. Tekno could not get an agreement with Disney in Denmark, so the agreement regarding that model happened via Disney in Sweden. – not Disney US –
Tekno also had an agreement with German Trix, all the way back from 1929/30-1972 and that agreement has not even been written down, as far as is known.
And perhaps the most important thing is that Tekno did not make Mercedes and DKW cars at all. They were all manufactured by a small company – H. Langes Legetøj A / S – which exclusively manufactured toys that could only be sold by Tekno in accordance with an agreement between Tekno and H.Langes Legetøj A / S
Things were different in the 1950s and 1960s. To take Lion Toys in Holland. They made different cars, like VW 1200, Renault Dauphin, DKW 3 = 6/1000S and more. Scale approx. 1:50 and they were made according to available car brochure material without being asked for permission.
To be honest, I do not think they thought much about it, they just produced some toys, and were really good at it.september 8, 2020 kl. 06:35 #71957AnonymInaktiv
Good to hear that reports on your demise were entirely premature.
Shame that you can’t chip in. I had hoped to be able to buy 1 or 2 cars from you in this series..september 8, 2020 kl. 17:50 #71967AnonymInaktiv
I surely appreciate your input, but may I logically dissect what you write a little?
“”The example VW Herbi from the 1969 movie. Tekno could not get an agreement with Disney in Denmark, so the agreement regarding that model happened via Disney in Sweden. – not Disney US –””
Disney is a company, comparable to Daimler benz AG. They both are ancient companies of supermassive size.
It is extremely unlikely that either of them would ever -in history- divulge such personal details to the public.
But, more importantly, it is impossible.
Scenario 1: Disney Sweden, if they are/were a fully privately owned independent release/production company, they would. -by the very definition of copyright-, have absolutely no say in copyrighted matters when it comes to US Disney intellectual content.
Scenario 2: If Disney Sweden is/was a US-Disney fully-owned subsidiary, then there would be no conflict possible, and this would be a moot point, a non-topic, simply because it is all the same company, no matter where their offices happen to be.
In that logical light, this Herbie story is to be designated an “urban legend” I am afraid.
“”Tekno also had an agreement with German Trix, all the way back from 1929/30-1972 and that agreement has not even been written down, as far as is known.””
I am sorry, I am not aware of who or what TRIX is, or how they relate to this.
Still, I am pretty confident that TRIX is not a multi-billion international automobile company or movie company, nor do they have a 100 year legacy of rigid global copyright and patent enforcement policies on which they base their global marketing and product release policies If so, the same logical verification methods would apply, just like Disney or Daimler-benz AG
Back to the case of this specific Bohnstedt-Tekno
I have 86 years of official Mercedes Stuttgart gift articles in my posession.
The era in which this Bohnstedt-Tekno was released falls within MB Stuttgart’s 1961-1972 gift-edition era.
In that specific era, some 100+ different items were commissioned by Stuttgart, and handed out to Mb clients.
May I illustrate how special this Bohnstedt-Tekno actually is?
1. Not a single exception is to be found when it comes to the absolutely identical print on MB’s packaging, -during that 1961-72 era.(unlike this Bohnstedt-Tekno)
2. Just yo be precise, , MB produced these identical print patterns in white, and 3 shades of pastel, never ever changing the actual print pattern.
3. There were never any mixed side colors, (unlike this Bohnstedt-Tekno)
4.There was never a print on the packaging of the item-producing brand (unlike this Bohnstedt-Tekno)
5. There was never a description of what was inside those boxes. (unlike this Bohnstedt-Tekno) You had to open them to find out what was inside..
6. There was never a sticker on any them, (like the Bohnstedt-Tekno) so they might use the same box for 2 different items at a cheaper cost.
7. There were no “special releases” or “special permissions” for any other country in the world, as was suggested here with this Bohnstedt-Tekno.
These gift items were for the German market first, and only incidentally some of them made it across that border, mostly carried by customers in the fantastically dodgy, yet official” Mercedes-benz European Delivery Program”
8. Except for the Ronson “James Bond” lighter, every single one of these 100+ different releases were German-produced items in that 1961-72 era. (unlike this Bohnstedt-Tekno).
And give me some time, and I will very possibly prove that this Ronson was also temporarily produced in Germany, as well as in France.
9. No exceptions to these rules are to be found anywhere on the planet.
10. At the same time..
All these MB departments have their OWN historical gift programs.
The Stuttgart Museum
The Carl Benz Museum
The Mercedes Kundenservice
The European Delivery Program department
The Mercedes Omnibus department
The Mercedes Truck department
The Unimog department
The Daimler AG’s retirement gift department
The 1961 75-yr MB anniversary commemorative gift commision
None of these departments were EVER allowed to use the Mercedes-Benz car department gift box design, that Bohnstedt had personally printed on these Tekno’s. They all had their own boxes.
And, to be precise, there WERE 75 yr MB anniversary gifts issued in this car department box pattern, but these were NOT items belonging to any of the aforementioned MB departments, but regular car department gifts, with a only single line “75 year mercedes-benz” printed on top of the otherwise regular car department gift box.
No commemorative coins, no “MB service” pins, no 18 wheeler models, no Unimogs, etc etc.
In the light of all that which I can prove by holding these very items in my actual possession, there is no conceivable scenario where Bohnstedt would have received permission from MB to use this extremely copyrighted format, and mess with it by adding stickers, orange sides, company name, content, just to stuff it with a non-German-produced Tekno.
The fact that that there are only 3 SL’s, and no other MB’s in that series, is merely a bit of circumstantial proof that Bohnstedt discontinued this packaging after some form of a cease-and-desist letter from Stuttgart.
Keep in mind that, with what we know about Bohnstedt’s history within the public domain, this SL was released in 66/67, just when Bohnstedt was (about to be) decimated by the loss of his title, his international reputation, his legacy, his national standing, and his biggest money maker, his glorious MB assembly plant.
He must not have been a happy man, being demoted to being nothing but a glorified car dealer.
In that light, I can draw some very likely conclusions.september 8, 2020 kl. 18:34 #71968
Trix was reportedly merged with Märklin at one point, but they had patented a advanced metal building set. As far as I know, Tekno did not export the kits made in Denmark.
I gave you the stories of the other things to put it a little in relief to the rigid guidelines you describe. We can then continue with Lesney-Matchbox, which has probably produced more cars than Mercedes. 😉 They were busy so they made a 4×4 model. It was an IH Scout. It was pretty much production ready, but they unexpectedly got NO from International H. New name for the model – Field Car … Something similar happened for a “The” brand on a Veteran car model.
I have to correct you about the 100 years … It was some 65-75 years in the 1950-60s Now I have no intentions of discussing whether the Disney story is correct or not. However, this is how the story is told by former employees of Tekno and the Swedish Tekno importer. And thats facts.
I also have no intentions of discussing how the Bohnstedt-Petersen family has managed the inheritance, because that is a completely irrelevant matter.
However, the fact is what we have in hand – Mercedes cars and boxes made in Denmark by Tekno Denmark. 230SL from 1963 too 250SL, 1966 and then 280SL 1967-69. AND yes they all three came in the box.
Bohnstedt-Petersen has probably used the box for so long, in combination with MB 75 years and own anniversaries, for starting a business, starting car sales, imports, or/and starting up assembly plants, importing and assembly plants for Mercedes cars and trucks, etc. My father, as an engineer, made a number of car sales houses and workshops, including Mercedes workshops for passenger cars and trucks at the time. Incidentally, it was not for Bohnstedt-Petersen, but Henry Petersen a relatively large dealer, now named Ejner Hessel. In that connection, I got a red 230SL open in that white box.
You threw the ball yourself and wanted information. You’ve got it. I do not think more can be pumped out.
But it is interesting what you write, and in that connection one can wonder why MB. have not done anything about it!
But it may be because the boxes were only for Danish dealers, who together probably did not sell more cars than a dealer in Hamburg or Bon.
- Dette svar blev ændret 3 år, 5 måneder siden af Hans Jørgen Wagner.
- Dette svar blev ændret 3 år, 5 måneder siden af Hans Jørgen Wagner.
Attachments:september 8, 2020 kl. 19:29 #71975
So the special box was for all three versions! 230 – 250 – 280. I do believe after all this discussion that this could be a unique piece for the gift museum. The only large importer/assembler/dealer that ‘got away’ with using the official MB images/trademarks on a gift box of his own design. The 1950-60s were different times!
Karl (still alive with no extra gift boxes in my collection!)september 8, 2020 kl. 19:57 #71976
OH — By the way – the Tekno MB 230SL -250SL – 280SL is from 1963 to 1972 but —-
Tekno was sold in 1969.
The Mercedes model was manufactured by a small company – H. Langes Legetøj A / S – which exclusively manufactured toys for Tekno according to an agreement entered into for the period 1949-69.
H.Langes Legetøj A / S was bought by Kirk telefoner (later Kirk telecom) Therefore, MB 280SL only came with the name KIRK at the bottom 1969-71 — but in 1971 / 72-72 the years overlap, the car was published again as Tekno.
This is because Tekno was bought in 1969 by a company called “Algrema” which already in 1970/71 bought the toy department of KIRK phones.
With that in mind, the white boxes will probably only be from 1963-69september 9, 2020 kl. 03:29 #71977AnonymInaktiv
Please understand I didn’t join this forum to throw rocks in glass houses.
I am sure Bohnstedt is a national treasure in Denmark, and his intense involvement in Tekno toys must be a thing that lies close to the heart of Tekno-collectors.
But, whenever there is anything vintage worth collecting, it is imperative to understand what it is we are collecting.
What, when, where, who and why. That is how collectors catch up and manage to write a history long forgotten by others, and often that turns out to be a history that means nothing to 99% of the people.
In that light, -myself included- one can not be satisfied drawing historical conclusions based on maybe’s and probably’s, mixed in with “he said’s and she said’s”
The way historians actually do this is by first establishing “the undisputed facts”. That is the reality baseline. Without it, one has no chance to establish the second layer of thought, “extreme probability”. Without extreme probability, one can not hope to achieve building that third layer, “most likely probability.”
All other layers might be frivolous theory, and that’s OK, as long as the mind always returns to the reality base line after venturing out into the wild.
Real collectors are historians, and we need this reality base line, or we are left with baseless air and mere wishful thinking.
That is not history.
My ego takes a beating at least once a month, in my line of work, whenever yet another frivolous theory is shattered by new discovery.
It is exactly at those occasions that I am reminded of the diluting forces of passion, combined with the need for closure.
My brainy side loves this, my ego hates it.
I think I am no different from most people in that aspect, be it that I try to be as aware as possible, and carry no extra excess luggage like patriotism, religion or commercial self-interest.
“”We can then continue with Lesney-Matchbox, which has probably produced more cars than Mercedes.””
I think comparing toy car production numbers with the real car industry is not beneficial, if the goal is to achieve historical clarity about this little W113.
“”I have to correct you about the 100 years … It was some 65-75 years in the 1950-60s””
Disney was founded in 1923.
Mercedes-Benz, as in Daimler AG was founded in 1926
So, Disney is actually older than Mercedes-Benz.
“this is how the story is told by former employees of Tekno and the Swedish Tekno importer. And that’s facts.”
I don’t doubt for a second, the “fact” that people told people along the years, but it changes nothing about the international intellectual property rights laws in place, ever since the founding of the International Patent Office in 1790.
If you dig in a little, you’ll find that Carl Benz and Gottlieb Daimler both were obsessed with obtaining patents.
The first combustion automobile in history, back in 1886, was literally called “Benz Patent-Motorwagen”.
It isn’t hard to imagine what Daimler AG were about in 1967, with a global army of lawyers, in charge of protecting a global multi-billion empire from parasitic erosion.
“I also have no intentions of discussing how the Bohnstedt-Petersen family has managed the inheritance, because that is a completely irrelevant matter.”
That’s fine. That part, at best is circumstantial guesswork and entertaining gossip.
“Bohnstedt-Petersen has probably used the box for so long, in combination with MB 75 years..”
That anniversary was 1961. The Bohnstedt-Tekno box we speak of is not.
“one can wonder why MB. have not done anything about it”
Nobody can (yet) scientifically conclude whether MB HAS or has NOT done something about it, since there are no public press releases to be found, and both tekno, as well as the Bohnstedt monopoly met their maker short hereafter.
But, if we read back the reality that I described in detail, especially in regards to the ridiculously rigid policies regarding Daimler AG’s OWN multiple secondary gift departments, but also internationally, we are factually, historically allowed to draw an “extremely likely” conclusion. He went it alone.
“But it may be because the boxes were only for Danish dealers, who together probably did not sell more cars than a dealer in Hamburg or Bonn”
For this, I again kindly refer to the list I offered, illustrating the “extreme unlikeliness” of such a permission.
First, these MB Stuttgart car department gift boxes were always, without exception, for Germany distribution only.
The very few vintage silver cigarettes that remain to be found in the USA, as customer gifts for the US audience, were produced in the USA, mostly by the famous Ayers Department Store.
Second, there is no historical precedent that could even remotely substantiate such (Dennmark) exemptions to ever have existed, no matter how much anyone wishes that to be true.
F.E, MB Argentina, an MB producer/assembler/distributor since 1951, makes the former MB Denmark assembly business look insignificant.
In the 70’s, Argentina was not even allowed to use the MB+Star logo on their commemorative silverware for retiring top MB functionaries.
I know, because I owned such stuff -and sold it, for the same reasons.
If even THAT wasn’t allowed, it -again- illustrates why giants like MB Argentina and MB Japan never even considered using any of the MB patented gift packaging, and why this Bohnstedt-Tekno, after all is said and done, is a Unikat, an thus a real historical treasure.
And if you allow me to float off into the area of frivolous gossip for a moment, I think Bohnstedt was a man with bigger balls than any of them, for he did what nobody else dared. He went it alone.september 10, 2020 kl. 13:21 #71996
Notice – there are different writers in this tread – I can only answer for my part and I draws attention to what I wrote the 6. september. Therefore – you asked for secure knowledge from now and forever – but I can´t help, if you expect 100 % scientific evidence from an internationel scala. But I think I not so fare from reality in many issues, but I will not be able to explain in details about a certain box. Nobody can – so it´s must depend on “most likely”. Nearly all scientific theoretical directions has some doubt and with Tekno “you never know”. I can´t come the truth any further about this speciel Mercedes box besides that the box exist.
“At last I have the say, but there are no secure knowledge about Tekno. My articles are build on material like drawings, protypes, the models, articles in all newspapers, katalogs fotos and interview with people working on Tekno etc. I have to compare all these information and put it together the exclusion method – and what is most likely.
I compere all this with my many-year-olds knowledge how Tekno was working and thinking and whats was the most likely disposition they made at that time – but it´s certainly not knowledge by a scientific standard.”september 11, 2020 kl. 12:51 #72022AnonymInaktiv
Indeed, and I am thankful for all input.
Naturally, nothing is for certain 100%
But I am happy you understand my near-scientific approach.
It is not that different from how you approach things.
The difference really, lies in the different historic policies of MB and Tekno.
One has been very flexible, the other rigid as the ice cap.
I sure hope that you bump into something new in the years to come.
When that happens, I would sure want to know!
Until then, with thanks from Taiwan!
Best wishes, Stanseptember 29, 2020 kl. 14:27 #72565
Jeg har sådan set aldrig rigtigt bidt mærke i tegningerne på Mercedes æskerne, som noget særligt. Designet, eller udtrykket er sådan set for dens tid ganske banalt og benyttes mange steder. Stilen var måden man lavede enkle illustrationer i bøger og blade, simple reklametegninger.
Samme stil blev benyttet til tryk på især blødeplastik eller vinyl ting. Således på Bilpuder, Toiletasker, rejse etui for tandkrus, Strandtasker omslag til bla. Single plade mapper oma.
Jeg har på Facebook fundet en æske fra Mercedes jubi. 1961 indeholende nogen flade tin figure af biler. Modsat normen er sættet mægtigt dyr der, og koster under halvpris på ebay i pænere stand.
Jeg har lånt billedet fra annoncen på ebay for at kunne forklare.
Det er andre tegninger på denne æske end de tegninger der er på Tekno bilernes æsker. Den originale Mercedes ting har end ikke stjerne i tekst linien som iøvrigt er blå.
ps: Jeg ved nogen af mine fotos er små — Gamle nogen fra min hjemme side. Men de kan nok give en ide om stilen generelt. sidste foto er fra PF artikel.
Attachments:september 29, 2020 kl. 14:38 #72576
PS: Mange at tegningerne er de samme på bil æsken og den større jubi. æske. Men ikke alle bilerne er ens. Der er forskellige biler ind i mellem, og de biler der er ens er ikke nødvendigvis i samme størelse, i forhold til nærmeste omgivelser, på tegningerne. Når nu man ved det så bliver det meget interessant at studere lidt på det. Men det er ikke noget der ses tit. Således er det kun de kendte Tekno æsker, og så et par originale jubi. æsker der er på nettet.
september 30, 2020 kl. 01:08 #72585AnonymInaktiv
- Dette svar blev ændret 3 år, 4 måneder siden af Hans Jørgen Wagner.
The reason little or nothing is online is because -for years- I spend 4-6 hours per day, searching in 4-5 languages and continents, forums, auctioneers and free ads for every single item ever issued. Since last week I even have an agent in Zimbabwe and in South Africa, turning kitchen drawers upside down.
There are actually many hundreds of different MB examples/articles/editions, all safely in storage here in Taiwan.
I normally immediately buy every item before Google Photos finds the time to scrub and list those auction sites on your search results pages.
If you browse through the many pages of my “Diary of a layman” thread in “www.W116.org”, you’ll find over 100 examples in gift-item pictures, which is just the stuff from the first 2 years of searching/purchasing.
Once I have finished writing the book on this, and the museum is a place of activity, I might decide to put the complete collection online. There are also a few examples on https://www.facebook.com/stan.deegs
In this case -among your photos- it is only the 6-tin-car box above that is an actual MB issue, and an actual 1961 jubileum box. All the other photos are not related, except for the fact that they may have been the same era, or a retro version of that era’s trend.
Actually, MB made little fuss about the 1961 Jubileum. Very few celebrations, compared to the massive, global 100-year jubileum campaign. t is presumed that management was weary of the idea of remembering what happened to the 25- and 50-year jubileums, both set during world wars.
(BTW, on http://www.automobilia-lit.de you can get this car-box for 15 euros. It is not rare)
In comparison, MB made a much bigger event out of Christmas in the late 50’s, with a very wider series of more valuable customer gifts that are now very collectible. It is possible that was a little peak in Christmas 1960 issues, to compensate for the very quiet 75 jubi, but no proof of that for now.
The Tekno 928 packaging doesn’t match the MB 1961 Jubi, the late 50’s Christmas, OR the 1961-72 car customer gift packaging editions.
If one had to choose between completely wrong, very wrong, and “just wrong”, the “wrong” packaging that comes closest is the retro 1972-1980 Stuttgart Museum packaging. They share the black/white print color, the same print design, same type font and the lack of a star.
But they StILL are different is the 50% smaller print-vector, no blue lettering. Some museum boxes, probably the early 80’s retro’s did not even have any lettering. The early AND later museum boxes never had a 3rd color (f.e.orange), no brand names or otherwise any descriptions on their box.The last (early 80’s) Stuttgart boxes in similar design were in white/dark blue in -50% vector.
Also, the Stuttgart retro gifts are generally of poor, cheaper quality. The seriously abundant black+star, skinny, cheap, pocket knives that were handed out at the museum are an example. This 928 was not such a cheap item..
There ARE a few museum boxes that have only a 1-sided MB print-design, rather than the standard 5-side or 6-side, but each time, those blank sides are white, and not still not colored (orange) or marked.
If one day, miraculously, an (extra-color) museum box would turn up, one could re-open this line of thought.
Until then, the 928 in question doesn’t fit anywhere, and remains more different than similar to certified MB gifts 1958-1972oktober 1, 2020 kl. 00:27 #72590
Hi – I know there is only one MB thing between my photos. I collect VW stuff. The four ashtrays are official, but the tooth mug is not.
I mentioned that I had not speculated further about the MB drawings, other than that they were popular at the time, with vintage car drawings back in the 1960s. The illustrations from a book help to show that the drawing style was also popular at the time. Not just for vintage cars or Mercedes but for all things. That’s what the post is about.
I have a google page I am moving where I have written about vintage cars on everything. in 1950-60-70, vintage cars were printed on all things, and I have tried to find answers to why, and searched for photos etc. of things with vintage cars on. None of my pictures are of anything newer than 1963.
My favorite animals are hedgehogs, wombats and donkeys.
My next victim in the search for information is the little donkey who always has to pull an oversized cart. – WHY ? – It is made of stone, clay, porcelain, metal wire, plastic and more. The figure could be bought as souvenirs all over the world – WHY? – 🙂
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